The Great Debate
The fine-tuning argument is NOT fine-tuned to assist believers of particular religions to argue for the truth of their religion’s claims.
References cited below.
Inspiration for this one came from listening to a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Frank Turek, co-author of “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist”
(Geisler, N and Turek, F. Crossway Books, Wheaton Illinois, 2004).
Turek’s first 20 minutes were very much like the first three of this video ie, the arguments from cosmology, teleology (the apparent designed nature of the universe), and morality. Some parts of it are direct quotations, other parts are paraphrased, and others I picked up from other theists’ videos/writings. To be fair to Turek, he acknowledged that these arguments did NOT lend credibility to the bible on their own, and invited Hitchens to a debate that would deal with the reliability of the bible. I ask, though if you’re going to admit that the cosmological argument doesn’t prove what you want to communicate, then why bother using it? Christians arent REALLY interested in making atheists into DEISTS, are they? (That’s certainly NOT what they’re called upon to do in the bible).
These cosmological-type arguments are just so broad and general, that it is a MASSIVE LEAP to go from them, to suddenly arguing for a deity whose name you know, whose values you know (on such things as dietary restrictions and opinions about how you should cut your hair, and, of course, opinions about foreskins), and who apparently has called you into a personal relationship with it. A leap SO MASSIVE, in fact, that no Christian would ever accept it from a Muslim, or vice versa, let alone from a Hindu or a devotee of ancient Egyptian gods.
So this video is not aimed at, or attempting to parody, Frank Turek, but is aimed at those in the youtube Christian community who seem to think that their faith is defended by recourse to the cosmological argument.
Folks, it is NOT.
It never WILL be.
See how ridiculous it seems to you when it comes from someone of another faith? In fact, I found a site that uses ALL of the cosmological arguments that are usually used in defending Christianity, being used to “prove” the accuracy and truth of the Quran.
Here it is, see if these arguments convert you to Islam:
http://www.creationofuniverse.com/index.html
The point of having the atheist remain silent throughout is an attempt to point out two things:
a) that the more theists use these arguments, the more they are simply doing their opponents’ work for them, and
b) that we as atheists (or more correctly as anti-theists, as I consider myself) can simply CONCEDE so many arguments and that are intended to stump us. CONCEDE the point, and show the christian that the argument does NOTHING to help them. NOTHING.
What rocks dream of : NOTHING!!!!
So what explains the incredible numbers and precision at the moments following the big bang?
I DON’T KNOW!
But hey, theist:::: neither do you.
And that’s OK.
Maybe it was The Goddess…? Maybe it was Great Spirit…? Maybe it was mass consciousness….?
Maybe we’ll never know….!
______________________________
Other sources of information for this video:
The Hitchens/Turek debate can be seen on youtube (in pieces) or at:
http://www.vimeo.com/1904911
http://www.indiayogi.com/content/indgods/brahma.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/amon.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun
The quote about he ratio between the gravitational constant and the electromagnetec constant came from:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro2.htm (accessed April 29 , 2009).
I dont know whether its scientifically accurate but being as the character is quoting a religious website for religious purposes, I dont mind if the information is inaccurate.
Hawking, S. A Brief History Of Time, Bantam Press, London: 1988, p. 121-125
Dawkins, R. 1996 The Blind Watchmaker, Norton & Co, NY p116
Duration : 0:9:35
[youtube 95VTh4FA_gE]
lmao nice vid
lmao nice vid
@Owlor I would …
@Owlor I would agree with that, I suppose it’s not that the one would have to come up so much as it would be more likely/probable that a 1 would show up, than it not showing up
Your basic point is …
Your basic point is correct,but 1 doesnt HAVE to come up if the chance is one in a trillion, that’s like saying if a condom has a 99% sucess rate and you have sex a hundred times you’ll get someone pregnant, or that if you toss a coin and get heads you HAVE to get tails the next throw, probabilities do no work like that. Anyway, if you toss even a trillon-dice for all eternity, eventually you will get a one,
This guy is AWESOME …
This guy is AWESOME: simple videos, simple messages and so much WIN XD
You could roll a …
You could roll a dice a trillion times and there’s no guarantee you will roll a ‘1′. Having an infinite number of rolls makes rolling a ‘1′ a virtual certainty, but not quite a one in one chance, as each roll of the dice is not influenced by the roll before it. Despite being improbable, you could roll 3s forever. I point this out only because I agree with your wider thought, and would hate to see someone say “mathematically you’re wrong and therefore god exists” because they would be wrong.
why is the …
why is the translation in Portuguese?
Ah shit, that’s …
Ah shit, that’s Portugese isn’t it
Hahaha closed …
Hahaha closed captions in Spanish ftw.
good prediction…
good prediction…
And now they’re …
And now they’re going to kill each other and we atheists can live on happily ever after.
Frank Turek is …
Frank Turek is Awesome, and so is Jesus.
But I got to admit this video is funny
21!
21!
Exactly! It doesn’t …
Exactly! It doesn’t matter how small of a chance the universe had at a successful big bang because of the vase number of “dice” thrown. I mean if it’s a 1 in a trillion chance for it to happen. All we need is for that 1 to happen, and if you throw a trillion dice, then you HAVE TO come across that 1 successful throw, and thats all we needed.
winner winner …
winner winner chicken dinner
The whole “fine …
The whole “fine tuned” arguement is based on the assumption that we only had one shot at the big bang and a universe. If we did infact have an infinite amount of chances at a big bang then the odds of a universe such as ours appearing becomes a one in one chance.
this video was pure …
this video was pure genious ^^
This video indeed …
This video indeed shows the greatness of the One True Invisible God.
I agree….. …
I agree…..carpnter2000……..single greatest video indeed! As an atheist, let me just say that the moral of this story is……some truth is better than no truth at all. We scientists don’t know everything, but at least we’ve got the balls to QUESTION…..rather than blindly walking by ignorance ……excuse me…’faith’
win.
win.
LOL
for the …
LOL
for the Atheist debator, that was a “Pass The Popcorn” moment
yes, this is the …
yes, this is the reality. instead of finding a common ground through a discussion, we’re always trying to push our views through debating. unfortunately, people end up trying to defend what they know, instead of opening up to find the similarities.
i was like that.. and still fall in this sad phase. but thanks to the Lord, i’m ever learning and have discovered more to the others books of Allah, such as Torah, Bible, and Psalms. i love the Qur’an…and i love knowledge. may God bless and guide..
excellent job
excellent job
hahahahah..yeah.. …
hahahahah..yeah..another good one….
Brilliant!
Brilliant!
Ah man. Your videos …
Ah man. Your videos crack me up every time.